TSE - Can you tell me a little about the band? There's such depth and richness to your history, and I can only skim the surface since I'm only coming to know the band late in your history.

PZ - I'll tell you I think there might be too much history. You don't want to drive people to crazy with tons of history. You know we've been recording since '78, got together in '76...um...don't hold any of that against us. We're probably better on stage now than we were then.

That's actually what I wanted to touch upon. I noticed when I've talked to people about you or read a few reviews of your old records, that it always stressed that, "Their records are very good, but you REALLY have to see them live!" Is there something that you do differently on stage that can't be reproduced in the studio?

If you're a good performer, that element can never be captured on a record. A record is not visual. And we are very special performers in that we're very immediate. We don't want to let people forget that they are watching living, human beings. We are not there to reproduce a record on stage. The two are totally different things. There is nothings I find more boring than shoe gazers, of any sort. If I feel a performer on stage is ignoring the audience, in any degree, no matter how much I like the band, I won't stay for more than two songs.

I definitely agree and, unfortunately, since I've gotten involved in music, there seems to have been a trend toward wanting to create that distance.

I don't know what it's all about. That was big in the early '70s. The New Wave and the Punk explosion kind of fought against that a little bit. Now it seems to be coming back. I guess it's some sort of rock star stance, but distancing yourself from the audience is the last thing we want to do. We'll do anything to bridge that gap; either bring ourselves to the same level of the audience or bring the audience up to our level.

What have been some of the off-beat things that you've found yourself doing?

We've ended shows by swimming away; that was on a beach in Rome. Anything. We've unplugged our amplifiers and sung without the microphones.

Was that because without the amplification

People have to listen, you know? We make the audience lay down. We make them stand up. We'll lay down. We won't make them do anything we won't do I'm actually surprised I haven't seriously, SERIOUSLY, injured myself many times over.

(I laugh.) I actually sent your latest release to a staff reviewer, before I decided to interview you. He mentioned in his review something about a thing you did with you hair during the shows. Can you explain that?

Ha. Well I had the same haircut since I was about two. For a while I seemed to have managed to make it a fairly popular haircut. I don't pay much attention to it, but I guess it has become my trade mark. I shake my head around a lot, so the hair is moving around and usually in my face. It gets that sweated down look. You should come and see us.

I definitely want to. When are you guys touring?

We break it up, but we're usually playing somewhere. Like, last December we were in Greece for a few days. In January we were in Spain for about a week. A few weeks ago we were in Mexico, also shooting our video. Two weeks ago we were in San Francisco for the Gavin Report Convention. And last weekend we were in Georgia, playing in Atlanta and Athens. We always come back home. It's not like we're road sluts.

Is that because you've been burnt out by that scene?

Well, that just tends to make you tired of playing. You get in the frame of mind "here we go again, here we go again." Each time we'll go out and try to do a special show. I just can't see going to see somebody if it's not going to change you somehow, or give you SOMETHING. Otherwise just stay at home and listen to the records. I found that out a long time ago. I came to this band being more of a fan of rock and roll. I think most people in bands these days come that way. They're not just a musician who's figuring, "How am I going to play something that someone's going to bother listening to." Now it's more like you're a fan with a definite idea of the type of music you want to play. In our case it was the type of muse we felt no one else was making.

What is it that you feel your band brings to rock and roll?

Well, we've always been a certain combination of what's called garage rock now. In the '70s it was called punk, and then it referred to bands like Syndicate of Sound and The Mysterians. And there are a lot of groups that dabble with that stuff, but I think we get to the heart of it. And that heart is home made, immediate, primitive rock and roll. Though our new record is fairly polished. But I guess, after 15 years, eventually anyone is going to learn how to play their instruments. Well, I can't, but that's part of the fun seeing us. It's all pretty real.

(I laugh.) Well, I think that's the main thing that attracted me to you music. Even from the record I was able to get the feeling that this was an honest set of songs.

If nothing else we are honest. Another thing I have to say is we enjoy music and playing immensely. We enjoy making records. To us it's not like we sit around thinking, "How do we become stars," or, "This is the penitence that you have to do you become stars." To us, doing what we do is the reward, or otherwise we would all have quit.

That touches upon another of my set of questions. Two of you songs, "Pocketful Of Change" and "Push On Thru', seem to sum up that attitude.

Yeah "Push On Thru'" is the optimistic side of it, and "Pocketful Of Change" is the more sober, morning-after view of it, both of which are true attitudes. Doing it, living something, should be the only reward. I heard a quote from Cervantes this year that I liked: "It's not the Inn, but the road," you know? Otherwise you're always waiting for something rather than enjoying what you're doing. Another thing I want - I have - to say is that I always hated songs by rock and roll bands bemoaning how terrible it is to have to play music. You know, "the road song," where they're complaining? What a boring thing to write a song about, instead of saying how interesting it is to be able to go out and see the world. It may be hectic. It may be tiring and sometimes it may be lonely, but it is SO interesting.

What...

You know, before you go any further I have to say something. I'm very impressed that you have listened to the lyrics of our songs, because we are constantly being pigeonholed as a group that...since we do sort of a garage sounding, kind of rock and roll, and since we do have a lot of songs where we do just sing "Sha la la la," a lot of people think that that's just what we do. They always just say about us, "Party band, party band, party band," and never try to look into our lyrics at all.

Hmm. That's kind of funny because I was talking with my cousin, who often went to see the band and we were wondering why you never found a massive audience. She suggested that it was because you were never marketed as a "party band," which is the area in which your band surpasses most others.

Maybe that is true. I don't know. I thought critically, people always used that slant on us. But marketing? I don't know if we've ever been marketed as anything, actually. Maybe this time it will change?

How autobiographical are you lyrics?

A lot of them are biographical, but they're composites of a lot of things. The things that I see around me, and stories from some of the people I know, I'll take and put into an autobiographical, or first person, context, rather than write them in a second or third person view.

Well, the songs I wanted to comment on next are "Big Heart" and "Not Everybody's Jesus." The idea I got from them was that the writer seems to have this ideal that he wants to live up to but is frustrated because he doesn't quite do it. In "Big Heart," his love relationship...

Well I think "Big Heart" is about finding the ideal love situation, but finding it hard to live up to our own expectations, rather than the other person's. Whereas "Not Everybody's Jesus" was just... I was working from a title that Keith (Streng, the guitarist) gave me. It's a slightly self-pitying song, which I wouldn't want to indulge in too much here. But sometimes you just want to write a type of song to express, not a general feeling, but a specific one.

I just related to both songs.

Good...but I hope things are going better for you.

(I laugh.) Yeah, much better, thanks. Now, when we were setting this interview up, you mentioned that you were working on you first video. What song is it for?

"Beautiful Light."

I think it's kind of funny that you hosted a show on MTV and you're just no making the band's first video.

This is the first video that I directed.

Ohhh. I misunderstood you.

Actually considering our background in film, and the TV show and the fact that we did one of the first New Wave videos - in 1977, called "Soul City," which is in the collection at the Museum of Modern Art - it is funny that it's the first time anyone in the band got directly involved in making them.

How are you finding it?

I find directing fun, but producing a nightmare; that's real work, it really is. Now I understand why those guys get 10%. So, anything I've said bad about video producers in the past I take back now. Live and learn, I guess.

(I laugh.) I saw that you were quoted on a press release I just got for this band...

Oh, yeah, Liaka And The Cosmonauts. They're an instrumental Finnish group. They're good. I also like The Swingin' Neckbreakers. There are a lot of Boston bands that are great, like The Voodoo Dolls, anything Nat Freedberg is doing, like The Satantics, I like. And...oooo, they're not The Jezabels anymore. What is that girl group from Trenton?

The Friggs?

Yes The Friggs! They're wonderful.

Are you familiar with the Whirling Dervishes?

I know I have run into them, but now that you ask me I can't remember.

I was thinking that the two bands, the Dervishes and you guys, would make a great bill. Not that they're doing a garage thing, but it's just that you both approach music with the same sense of fun, goofiness... Not that you're goofy, but...

No. We are goofy. But you know what? Goofiness mixed with poignancy is very nice. It's hard to do that. Jerry Lewis tried to do that and I think he was very unsuccessful. But when you can make that work - if that's what you are, which is how you make it work - that's really wonderful.

Well, I guess you should know that you're band is wonderful.